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Thread: Sharp Tongue Arena II--Support Cryptor

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by gadichoi View Post
    That right, when in confrontation with Sirenne and team mate has been cursed and near death with Death Code. Statisis shield will save at least one round from the explosion. One round could changing lose to win
    si perche alla fine ok... sirenne e retrobot sono forti ma senza la protezione di criptor in squadra non servono , perche magari incendos li uccide prima che sparino

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Until 4 days ago I would have picked Sirenne as the best non-Dark, non-SS commander in the game, but then Krill happened. And that changed everything. Now I genuinely believe Cryptor is the best non-Dark, non-SS hero, and that makes him better than Retrobot or Sirenne as well.

    I will break this analysis into several parts:

    1) Special attack effect:
    First thing that makes Cryptor special is his ability to withstand death ... and not only for himself but for another companion ship as well. So when you are comparing any ship's power against Cryptor you actually have to compare that ship's power against Cryptor and his now saved friend.
    Also the stasis effect of Cryptor last for 5 rounds ... that means it can easily happen to have 3 ships under the effect at the same time. Those are 3 ships that are still fighting and hitting enemies.

    I mentioned Krill earlier. Now Cryptor's stasis effect keeps him and a companion alive even in the face of certain doom. But with Krill's +7 effect in the game now, Cryptor is the best suited to use that. Basically until now the best way to deal with Cryptor once it activated stasis was to chop his life until a low amount and then kill him twice in the same round. Well that tactic is going to be way harder now since chopping life is not a 100% success path anymore. And the fact that he has stasis on him means it can actually survive that full turn of hits to get again to a big hp stat it previously had. With the added benefit of firing a new stasis since being hit charges accumulator of course.


    How do the other's effect compare:
    Retrobot: freezing effect has a chance to occur and it only lasts 1 round. His accumulator depletion has an even lower chance to occur and it takes down 75 accumulator. Taking in account that the standard commanders accumulator is 50 and lvl10 satarocean gives +75 ... we can see this as the equivalent of a 2 rounds effect. Now the chance of both this effects occurring at the same time on the same ship would be 0.6 * 0.5 = 0.3. So we could say Retrobot has a 30% chance of having a 3 rounds equivalent effect. Way lower than Cryptor's 100% chance of a 5 rounds effect.

    Sirenne: this is easier to compare, a 2 rounds certain effect that is countered by Cryptor's 5 rounds certain effect. So Sirenne looses in this regard.

    Also Cryptor's special effect triggers even if it misses the target, unlike the competitor's who only trigger on hitting the target and even then only with a certain chance (Retrobot) or if a sopecial condition occurs, condition denied by Cryptor's special (Sirenne).

    So for the effect duration and power the clear winner is Cryptor.


    2) Ship class:
    Cryptor and Retrobot are the same being both rangers. So we have a draw in here.

    Sirenne is a rover. The main disadvantage rovers have is their lack of penetration skill, and Sirenne is no exception to this. On the other hand what Cryptor has in abundance of is exactly block. So, compared to Cryptor, the fact that it is a Rover is actually a disadvantage for Sirenne. On the other hand Retrobot has 0% block

    Clear winner: Cryptor


    3) Special attack power:
    Cryptor: 150% monomer.
    Sirenne: 100% horizontal.
    Retrobot: 100% cross-attack.

    Considering the number of targets hit, Cryptor is at a clear disadvantage to the other 2 since it will hit only one single target while Sirenne and Retrobot have the possibility to hit multiple targets.

    Considering the power of the initial hit: Cryptor wins since his initial hit is harder than that of Sirenne and Retrobot, giving him a better chance to simply kill his target in 1 shoot, or at least take a significant portion of the damage.

    Giving this I would say this category it is a draw between the 3 of them.
    I can not agree with this. The skill of Cryptor is not active 5 rounds as we can see in the battles from CCC. Kril is very expensive lieutenant also only a few people can make him +7 and this is just a possibility which only a few people will use. Cryptos can withstand death but with single shots he lose his HP points. That means he can stay at low HP and after the effect finishes to be killed very easy. Cryptos does not have dodge, so he will get hits from everyone. Also he is a ranger with low speed which means that with him you can lose first shot.
    Another thing I can not agree is for special attack power. Sirenne is the only 1 commander who can deal 2 different types of attack- horizontal and cross which makes Sirenne winner in this competition.

  3. #23
    for sure cryptor this is because of his s attack whatever how hard is the hit he will survive it

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspades View Post
    I can not agree with this. The skill of Cryptor is not active 5 rounds as we can see in the battles from CCC. Kril is very expensive lieutenant also only a few people can make him +7 and this is just a possibility which only a few people will use. Cryptos can withstand death but with single shots he lose his HP points. That means he can stay at low HP and after the effect finishes to be killed very easy. Cryptos does not have dodge, so he will get hits from everyone. Also he is a ranger with low speed which means that with him you can lose first shot.
    Another thing I can not agree is for special attack power. Sirenne is the only 1 commander who can deal 2 different types of attack- horizontal and cross which makes Sirenne winner in this competition.
    We are here to choose the best commander out of the 3, not the best cheap commander, or the best commander in a vacuum without taking in account how it interacts with any other commander released.
    His skill indeed lasts 5 turn if the ship isn't killed. In the CCC, that you mentioned it look at the second battle of oktay vs denis and you will see a cryptor resisting the full onslaught attack of a fully equipped Sirenne +7 with all equipment at +100 and lvl8 R6 duals. That battle alone is a testimony of how resiliant Cryptor can be and how hard it is for a single ship to actually bring it down.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL1yJCXMXBw
    In fact if you look at the 3rd battle you will notice that the main goal there was to take down denis's Cryptor even though that meant putting Dark Zoeey to shoot 3rd and risking her being blocked by Jackie. This was done exactly because of how important and powerful Cryptor is.
    богдан.s387/World 187/iOS

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by James G Vine View Post
    My argument is for SIRENNE being the BEST MOST AWSOME of the three are 1. He's a Rover and everyone knows that rovers have good speed and are even brtter when Violette is used as a lieutenant along with 2 or 3 rovers!
    2. His satk is awsome very powerful if he doesn't take you out first shot his death code finishes you off!
    3. Also he has high hp and great dodge so if you pair him with Zaffery as lieutenant you also get a chance of going invisible so if he has to he can take a hit aswell as give one in my honest opinion he is amazing!

    Jimbo.s196 world1099 android
    2) his Satk is powerful, but not "very powerful". As an example see an earlier post of mine with the battles of Oktay vs Denis. Oktay has a fully powerd-up Sirenne +7 and yet Cryptor blocks it like there's no tomorrow withstanding all the punishment Sirenne is able to apply alone. In fact that is the problem with Sirenne, in the end game it requires a very powerful second ship to actually trigger it's death blow.

    3) Cryptor has an exceptional block rate. Also is able to use Elsa for a similar effect to Sirenne. As for the great dodge, Hunter is fairly common and a very good antidote to big dodge heroes. On the other hand there is no similar hero to boost penetration, so no antidote to a big block yet.



    Quote Originally Posted by redspades View Post
    I think Sirenne is the best from these 3 commanders, because:
    1. Sirenne has an advantage in the speed because he is a rover and can get +100 points by violette, which is big advantage for first shot. Also with zaffrey he can stay alive much longer and use his skill again which makes him even more dangerous.
    2. His skill is active for 2 round which means that the chance for success is doubled.
    3. The death code can kill the whole fleet. He shoots horizontal attack which can turn into cross attack and finish the battle easy.
    4. Sirenne has very good critical and dodge rate, which makes him hard to be killed and also he can deal a lot of damage because of his critical and this will make the things even easier. If the attacked ships are not killed, they will left with very low HP and they will be easy to be killed and then the death code will finish them.
    Sirenne is the only one who can deal 2 different types of attack- horizontal and cross.
    The skill of Sirenne has very big chance for success- 80% and doubled chance to use it successfully.l because of its activity for 2 rounds.
    Finally I want to say that Sirenne is the perfect commander. The commander with the most advantages. Can use the skills of violette and zaffrey, has very good stats- high dodge, critical and hit rate and deadly skill. Just Sirenne.

    redSPADEs.s791 world 749 AN
    1) Elsa has a similar effect to Zaffrei without needing to be at half life to do it
    2) So using this logic Cryptor's 5 turn skill means the chance of success is 5 times ... clearly a winner when compared to only double chance.
    3) Easy is a relative term. Look at all the battles in the CCC with Sirenne, quite a few of them didn't finish "easy". Indeed when facing lower powered opponents the tendency is to say "how awesome is this commander" but actually almost any commander would do the same job if there is a big gap in power.
    4) Cryptor's critical chance is higher than Sirenne. It has a very high natural block rate and Sirenne has o natural penetration. So basically he only takes half damage from Sirenne most of the time. Also his skill is 100% guaranteed and because of the high block rate it comes to be activated way more often than Sirenne is.
    Indeed Sirenne can make quick work of weaker opponents but Cryptor is the one that can actually make life a pain for a similar powered opponent ... and this makes him a more powerful commander than Sirenne.
    богдан.s387/World 187/iOS

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Retrobot is better than Sirenne or Cryptor because has awesome 35% initial dodge.

    we all know that Dodge is very important to survive in the fight. It is very important to evade opponents' Special attack and with such a great initial value, supported by a dual-trait galactonite with the dodge part, without a lot of spends you can reach amazing 65% of the dodge which simply guarantees very often missing shoots to the Retrobot.
    Unfortunately, as I pointed out earlier, Robo doesn't have any penetration. His relatively weak attack power (100% nowadays is weak) combined with the lack of penetration means he gets blocked all day long. And the bad part of being blocked is you also get to be hit by a return shoot that can't be avoided with all the dodge in the world.
    Also his block skill = 0 ... that means every hit that actually does connect to him will simply be at full force.
    Cryptor on the other hand starts with 35% block and at +7 gets to a nice 41% ... add a good dual block on him and you get to more than 75% block rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Retrobot is the best among them because has built-in 110% Hit-rate (for example Cryptor has only 100%)

    Powerful cross-attack or vitality / persistence with the evasion is nothing when you cant hit your opponent to deal damage and always missing.
    The hit-rate over 100% is another extremely important parameter which influence to the mighty and usefulness of your commander and possibility to deal damage.

    Not many ships of any class may boast of Hit-rate 105%, but Retrobot has 110% !
    Even most of the Dark commanders (which cost 4-5 times more than Retrobot) have hit-rate under 110%, and this makes him really awesome commander
    And there are commanders that are free and have the same hit rating as him (Thaddeus) so let's not bring cost into this discussion. We are here to debate the power of these commanders, not their price.

    His hit rate is decently high, but there are plenty of other common commanders that have similar or higher hit rating: Aethos, Dark Asgaard, Thantos, Daleks, Hunter, St. Nick, Krill, Acc'tan (yeah, I really saw some people using him in fleets), Richter and Thaddeus. As you can see the 110% or more hit is not that uncommon among widely available commanders.
    Also hit rating can be boosted fairly easy with Hunter with a nice 20% increas, on the other hand the only way to boost penetration is with Khala lt. and only with 2% for rovers.
    I would admit that 110% hit rating is good, just not as good as that 20% penetration Cryptor has instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    Retrobot has highest combination of the ATK + DEF over opponents

    Dealing a bit more damage with the every hit and survive one more turn are keys to victory.

    Retrobot has almost twice more defense than opponents (and most of the ships in general).
    He has even twice more defense than any protector or even Dark commander, and this with the combination of the great evasion and anti-crit makes him really great first-lane tanking hero.

    Without any doubts you can change your protector or any other ship supposed to absorb damage and cover the less durable ships to the Retrobot.
    I provided a table earlier that includes the defense they have. I don't see how you can say it has twice the defense of other commanders, unless you are comparing him with E class Sylver. Also you conveniently left out his abysmal s-def.
    Cryptor is way more balanced in these aspects. and if we are to add the numbers
    Cryptor: ATK + S-ATK = 217870
    Robo: ATK + S-ATK = 213238
    this is a 4632 offense difference in favor of Cryptor.
    If we do the same with the defenses: 163661 vs 165911, just a 2300 total def difference in favor of Robo.
    Now if we compare them ... Cryptor's offense advantage is more than double of Robo's defense advantage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    above was mentioned that Retrobot has amazing 30% anti-crit (one of the highest among all commanders) which let you survive in the battle

    but in this post i would like to show this amazing anti-crit parameter from the other side to underline the importance and power of the Retrobot.

    Before the Retrobot released, only rovers among regular S-class commanders had such a great and important parameter as anticrit, but pay attention that Retrobot not a rover, Retrobot is ranger !
    Yes, Exactly, this is the only available Ranger with the anti-crit ! Neither regular rangers nor even dark commanders or even extremely costly SS class commanders have the anticrit parameter !
    High value of the anti-crit parameter was an exclusive feature of the rovers and top Dark and SS protectors, before the Retrobot released, this makes him really unique versatile hero.

    Having another class versatile ship in your fleet is also very important because it saves you a lot of money for the chips and pandora cores. if you already have one rover or even 2 rovers in your fleet, having the third one will deplete your credit card in case you decided to pimp him up to [+5] or [+6], but retrobot the same time has ranger class but also all the attributes of the rover class
    You are stating factually incorrect information just so the conclusion can be the one you want it to be.
    Let me point out what other commanders not being rovers have also high anti-crit, and since you did mention SS commanders I will include those as well in the listing (except rovers, I will not list rovers) and I will include only those with 20% ore more anti-crit:
    *Vitos (ranger): 35%
    Hartmann (ranger): 30%
    Katiya Storm (prot): 40%
    Goodman (prot): 30%
    Carter (prot): 20%
    Dark Carter (prot): 20%
    Alkharaz (prot): 40%
    *Dark Asgard (prot): 30%
    *Thantos (prot): 30%
    Kerom (destro): 20%
    *Incendios (destro): 20%
    *Brom Bones (destro): 20%

    I'm not saying it is not a good or important stat, what I'm saying is that it's not that uncommon as you make it to be.
    Also as you can see Vitos is one regular ranger that has it and it's even higher than what Robo has.
    Now Cryptor might lack the anti-crit, but it does have an abundance of crit. In fact it has enough to counter balance what Robo has, but the difference is robo at +6 only gets 33% anti-crit in total, while Cryptor gets 37% crit at +7. I don't know what the increase is from +6 to +7 for Robo here, but looking at all other commanders except FS none gets a 4% increas in one single stat for a level. So in the end Cryptor's crit is higher than robo's anti-crit, thus Robo will be critable by Cryptor.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zeus View Post
    one more point in favor of Retrobot is he can evade the primus.

    yes for this he still need a good dual trait galactonite with the evasion part, but he has 10% more than Elsa which was the most slippery hero before we got retrobot.

    So the retrobot is so versatile hero that can be useful not only in PvP but also in every action this game has:
    every day Primus, Infinite cosmos, Chaos Quasar, Primus Invasion

    everywhere his superb cross freezing or accums draining will help you as well as his high damage and durability
    Of all those mentioned, only Infinite Cosmos is where Robo truly has an advantage over Cryptor. In there indeed living 1 more shoot seldom matters at high levels where +7 +100 bosons fully equipped ships are 1 shoot. On all the other parts mentioned, Cryptor is the one that better performs over Robo.
    богдан.s387/World 187/iOS

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    2) his Satk is powerful, but not "very powerful". As an example see an earlier post of mine with the battles of Oktay vs Denis. Oktay has a fully powerd-up Sirenne +7 and yet Cryptor blocks it like there's no tomorrow withstanding all the punishment Sirenne is able to apply alone. In fact that is the problem with Sirenne, in the end game it requires a very powerful second ship to actually trigger it's death blow.

    3) Cryptor has an exceptional block rate. Also is able to use Elsa for a similar effect to Sirenne. As for the great dodge, Hunter is fairly common and a very good antidote to big dodge heroes. On the other hand there is no similar hero to boost penetration, so no antidote to a big block yet.





    1) Elsa has a similar effect to Zaffrei without needing to be at half life to do it
    2) So using this logic Cryptor's 5 turn skill means the chance of success is 5 times ... clearly a winner when compared to only double chance.
    3) Easy is a relative term. Look at all the battles in the CCC with Sirenne, quite a few of them didn't finish "easy". Indeed when facing lower powered opponents the tendency is to say "how awesome is this commander" but actually almost any commander would do the same job if there is a big gap in power.
    4) Cryptor's critical chance is higher than Sirenne. It has a very high natural block rate and Sirenne has o natural penetration. So basically he only takes half damage from Sirenne most of the time. Also his skill is 100% guaranteed and because of the high block rate it comes to be activated way more often than Sirenne is.
    Indeed Sirenne can make quick work of weaker opponents but Cryptor is the one that can actually make life a pain for a similar powered opponent ... and this makes him a more powerful commander than Sirenne.
    I don't see arguments here.
    The effect of Cryptor is not lasting 5 rounds, but the most 5 shots in which he will stay at very low HP and will die easy after that.
    Cryptor also has low hit rate and his is shooting single attack. Nothing scaring.
    Also with his low hit rate he will miss a lot so he would be ineffective
    Sirenne has no problem with this.
    The death code can make a lot of damage and even kill the whole fleet. He is the only commander of this who deals 2 different
    types of attack. With Elsa he can stay hidden only for a few rounds. Zaffrey can hide Sirenne to the end of the battle. Also Sirenne has the speed advantage which is very important. The chance to win is bigger and if the cryptor is killed because of this he become totally ineffective. Also there was a bug about his skill so after fixing it he is even weaker.
    Horizontal+cross is much better than single attack.
    Dealing 150% cross after activating the death code is much better then staying alive after 5 shots. Full domination of Sirenne. No doubt.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Bogdan View Post
    Crypto analysis. Part 2
    Due to the fact this analysis is long, I did decide to split it in manageable post lengths, so let's continue:

    4) Raw stats:
    In order to analyse we are to assign 3 points for being position 1 in a category, 2 points for position 2 and 1 point for 3rd position.

    Skill (lvl 100) Cryptor Retrobot Sirenne
    ATK 125204 124972 106969
    S-ATK 92666 88266 116170
    Def 91348 102600 67727
    S-DEF 72313 63311 97407
    HP 731985 731335 724284
    Crit 30 15 20
    Crit ATK 160 165 175
    Anti Crit 0 30 35
    Block 25 0 0
    Dodge 0 35 25
    Pen 20 0 0
    Hit 100 110 110
    Total 25p 22p 23p

    So from this table we can see Cryptor is clearly the winner in the stats category.

    5) Fleet Uses:
    Cryptor: PvP and Primus.
    Although it's auto-block effect is supposed to be taken out, Cryptor still can be used in it's Primus formation due to the fact primus has no penetration and it's block rate can be ridiculously high. (note though at the time of writing this post on iOS the bug is not fixed).

    Sirenne: PvP

    Retrobot: PvP.
    He has no use in classical Primus formation due to the fact that there are already 3 reliable lockers (100% effect), so an unreliable one can't be placed. Also he is unreliable as an accumulator reducer, so can't be used for that either.

    Winner: Cryptor.


    Conclusions:
    Out of 5 analysed section, Cryptor is winning 4.
    This makes it in my opinion clear that out of the 3 commanders analysed, he is clearly the winner.

    Everyone can make a table in which his own favorite commander will win.
    Most of the "advantages" of Cryptor are not advantages actually.
    He has low hit rate- the most important stat. As we know if you can not hit the enemies ships the commander become
    useless.
    Sirenne has no that problem. His hit rate is higher with 10% which is big difference
    Second thing- dodge>block. Its much better to stay untouched instead of receive any kind of damage.
    Especially if your HP is low, better to miss you, instead to receive a damage, which will kill you.
    Sirenne has not that problem. His dodge is 25% and its growing with augmentation.
    Another disadvantage of Cryptor- 0 anti crit. He can easily receive a lot of damage and stay at very low HP
    and because of this he will be killed very easy.
    Sirenne has not that problem. - 35% which is very strong stat.
    Cryptor will get a damage 100%. He has not dodge and anticrit.
    Sirenne has 2 protections. His high dodge and high anticrit.
    Cryptor can only withstand a lethal damage. Nothing more. He dies easy even with his skill activated.
    No other protections and advantages.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by redspades View Post
    I don't see arguments here.
    The effect of Cryptor is not lasting 5 rounds, but the most 5 shots in which he will stay at very low HP and will die easy after that.
    Cryptor also has low hit rate and his is shooting single attack. Nothing scaring.
    Please before making any statements read the heroes descriptions. It states clearly there ... 5 rounds not 5 shots, not 1 shot, not 10 shots. 5 rounds or until the ship would die, which it won't. If you don't see anything scary about 2 of your enemies ships withstanding your deathblows and being there to tell the story ... we are indeed playing different games.

    Also with his low hit rate he will miss a lot so he would be ineffective
    The funny thing is ... it's effect that is so scary actually applies even if he misses the shoot.

    Sirenne has no problem with this.
    Indeed, Sirenne has a problem with being blocked all day long, which leads to Cryptor's accumulator being charged and more S-ATKs being fired. Ah did I mention that blocked hits can't be dodged?

    The death code can make a lot of damage and even kill the whole fleet. He is the only commander of this who deals 2 different
    types of attack.
    Partially agree with you, he is the only one to deal with 2 different types of attack, but also Cryptor and his now saved friend do the same ... deal together 2 types of attack

    With Elsa he can stay hidden only for a few rounds. Zaffrey can hide Sirenne to the end of the battle. Also Sirenne has the speed advantage which is very important. The chance to win is bigger and if the cryptor is killed because of this he become totally ineffective. Also there was a bug about his skill so after fixing it he is even weaker.
    Every hero is innefective if dead ... surprisingly enough Cryptor and Sirenne can both be effective from beyond the grave, just that Cryptor has 5 rounds in which he can be effective while Sirenne only 2
    Also if we are talking about lt. see how effective Krill actually is on Cryptor ... avoid dead, get back to full health, dance again with death avoidance. Having to kill a ship at least 3 times is not a very easy task. Especially when 2 of those 3 times he also saves a friend.

    Horizontal+cross is much better than single attack.
    Dealing 150% cross after activating the death code is much better then staying alive after 5 shots. Full domination of Sirenne. No doubt.
    If you consider in a vacum then yes ... if you take in account also the ATKs of the other ships Cryptor saves, you should have doubts, big doubts about that full dominantion of Sirenne.
    богдан.s387/World 187/iOS

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pliusomiot View Post
    Actually, I'd suggest to dismiss all those support commanders in this debate. At least in the argumentative part.

    I find that there are at least 2 good reasons to do it:

    1) we're supposed to compare only those 3 commanders (Sirenne, Cryptor and Retrobot), not the entire handbook.
    2) just as Krill is a new addition to the game, tomorrow or next month we could be blessed with another brand new commander with even better support skill (s) who will favor either of them. The really high rate of newcomers into handbook is backing up best of all this argument.

    I'd add a third argument that it is rather related to accesibility of those support commanders but that will probably disqualify me in this contest ))))

    To get the exact result who is the best out of those 3 we'd need a sandbox, a blanc Cryptor, a blanc Sirenne and a blanc Retrobot of the same level without any other ships around and let them fight in pairs. Too bad we can't do it

    Btw, this could be a nice addition to the game.. a kind of try before buy.. maybe an option in handbook (fight against...) with a drop down list to select the opponent ???
    I am really interested about your idea, may be tap will release new update in handbook. But we are talking about the mightiest commander in real battle. GL is tactical game and no place for solo battle. Of cource we need support of some lieutenant from handbook. Neither of you have combination Sirenne-Zaffrey or Rerobot-Elsa? The winners must leverage the power of the team and the strengths of each commanders.
    *** From Galaxy Legend Viet Nam ***
    gadichoi.s8 world653(iOS)

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